People love podcasts because of their familiarity. The show comes out at the same time every week with the same hosts, making jokes or diving deep into the topics that you’d expect. It is variations on a theme, like Oreos coming out with a new flavor or Americans tuning in at 11:30 to watch a late night show. Although we can’t surprise-drop a chocolate-peanut-butter-pie podcast, we can use the structure of a late night show to make our podcasts work for us.
Imagine a late night show with whichever J-Named host you choose. How does it usually go?
The theme song, that introduces the guests
The monologue, where the hosts cracks jokes about the news of the day, and riffs with their charismatic bandleader
A comedy grab bag here. Usually a comedy sketch or variety segment, like Carpool Karaoke or whatever Jimmy Fallon is doing to go viral
Interview with the first guest
A game with the first guest or more interview
Interview with the second guest
A performance of some sort: a musical guest or a standup
Goodnight, everybody! Carson Daly is up next. See you tomorrow!
When you’re putting out five new episodes a week, the late night show needs to rely on this structure. The structure of the late night show, a type of TV that’s been around since before we watched it in color, is a scaffold for the host, writers, and performers to hang their work on. People are tuning into the 11:30 institution of the late night show just as much as they’re looking for Jimmy or a specific guest. Relying on a time-tested format makes sense; if you had to create two brand-new hours of TV from scratch every weekday, it would be a mad dash to put something out every night.
You may not have the pressure of following Jay Leno on your shoulders, but you do have a podcast, and the late night talk show is the best way to frame how you should structure your show. Especially for conversational podcasts, where two or three hosts chat on a microphone, the conversation is solely responsible for being interesting and exciting. This might work for professional comedians because they’re very good at spinning gold out of just talking, but it’s not so easy for the rest of us.
That’s why the structure of your show is so crucial: it’s another co-host, another person at the table. Let the structure do the work of “What do we do next?” while the hosts can concentrate on being funny, interesting, informative, or quick on the draw. Also it sure makes making weekly episodes easier when you have an idea of what the shape of every episode is going to be. Your podcast episodes need an unchangeable outline, and I need you to write it down. Write down the order of segments, how long they are, and what you’re doing in them.
I’ll give you an example from This Is Good For You, a show about finding joy and pleasure in small things, hosted by Nichole Perkins. The show is a combination of essays, with just Nichole speaking, and interviews between Nichole and a guest about what they love to do.
Theme song: 1 minute
Intro/Story: Nichole says “Hi babiiiies!!” to the audience, talks about how she’s doing, shares a personal story that introduces and connects to the guest. She also makes important announcements, like when her book came out last year. 5-10 minutes
Interview: Nichole interviews her guest! 25-35 minutes
Indulgence: Nichole recommends an indulgence, something that she loves that you can enjoy without guilt. 5-10 minutes
Credits, Call to Action, and Patrons: Nichole outros the show, directing the audience towards her Patreon, and reading out the names of the patrons who donate at the Producer tier. 1-2 minutes long
This also works for fiction shows! Take Join the Party, a Dungeons and Dragons Podcast:
Recap of the last episode: A short and high-energy summary of what happened last time to help orient people to the next chapter of this serialized story. 1-2 minutes
Theme song: 1 minute
Act 1: ~30 minutes
Midroll break: Starting and ending with the same sound effect, this is where we update the audience on housekeeping items like merch, live shows, new Patreon supporters, and read our ads. No longer than 7 minutes
Act 2: ~30 minutes, ending on a cliffhanger and outro theme song
These are two totally different shows: different hosts, genres, formats, lengths, and publishing schedules. But they both rely on a consistent structure that introduces people to the episode, updates them on what’s going on behind the scenes, and reminds people where they can connect with the show outside of their podcast feed. Small variations happen here and there, but everyone knows exactly what episodes will include. And that’s a very good thing.
Remember when I said your outline couldn’t change? I was lying; you definitely can. But if you change it, you and your audience will notice. Let’s go back to our late night show. When there’s a guest host, or a guest who’s on the entire episode, or a special all-hip-hop extravaganza, you notice and enjoy the change in pace. But the next night, we’re back to the normal structure. It’s the same for your podcast. You can break the structure every so often, but it has to be for a good reason that’s entertaining to you and the audience.
Putting thought and effort into your show’s structure helps you as the creator to publish regularly; shows consideration to your audience by teaching them what to expect; and helps you signal when important things are happening by giving you a norm to deviate from. So next time you’re starting a new show or making improvements to your existing one, put on an episode of your favorite late night show in the background. Trust me, it’ll help.
Head of Creative, Multitude